52 SPECIAL - Tootsie Pop Commercial: How Many Licks?

Back in 1970, there was a phenomenal commercial that aired across the US. Candy manufacturer Tootsie started a campaign to shine a light on their Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pops. They gathered a cast of iconic actors who became The Boy, Mr. Cow, Mr. Fox, Mr. Turtle, the Narrator and, of course, Mr. Owl!

Come back to 1970 to see how this commercial come together and has endured through the years. And, once and for all answer the burning question: How many licks does it take to get to center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop? SPOILERS: It's more than three.

Thanks for ‘tooning in.

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Transcript

THE SATURDAY MORNING PODCAST

“Tootsie Pop: How Many Licks?”

1. INTRO

                   AMBIENT: TBD

ME:           You know as well as I do that you’ve seen that one famous Tootsie Pop commercial. The one with the kids and the animals, and the burning question: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? While Mr. Owl took the delicious, but easy way out, there is actually an answer! And there’s decades of history that all led up to that one minute segment in 1970 that has run for decades. And I first saw it on Saturday Morning back in the 80s.

              Did you see it then? Was it in the 90s? Did you see the remake with the dragon? Maybe you just checked it out on YouTube. Even if you’ve never seen it, maybe you’ve seen the Mr. Owl shirts. In some way, you’re connected to it! Sit back as we rebel against the idea that the world may never know. Get ready to explore the genesis, cast and legacy of “Tootsie Pops: How Many Licks?”. 

                   FX: TV STATIC

2. THE CREATORS & SERIES ORIGIN

                   MUSIC: EXTRAORDINARY FELLOW

ME:           To look at the “How Many Licks” commercial, we have to go all the way back to 1896. That’s when Leo Hirshfield started at a small candy store in New York City. Hirshfield was an Austrian Jewish immigrant who relocated to America in hopes of a better life. More than a decade after starting at the candy store, Hirshfield turned his attention to creating better candy. Specifically, a chocolate product that wouldn’t melt in the heat of the city. The solution was to create an artificial chocolate, as an alternative to traditional chocolates. 

              The problem with regular chocolate was that it was expensive to refine, mold and ship. But an artificial chocolate could be anything you wanted. Hirshfield opened his five-story factory and named the candy after his daughter, Clara. They called her “Tootsie” as a nickname and it stuck. 

              The company was changed to The Sweets Company of America in 1917, and was put on the American Stock Exchange to become a publically traded company two years later.

              The Sweets Company of America took on a life of its own, and Leo Hirshfield, the company’s creator, was kicked out of his own creation. Knowing he was a success once, Hirshfield started all over, and built a company from the ground up. He unveiled the Mells Candy Corporation as a competitor. 

              Unfortunately, plagued with health problems, Hirshfield committed suicide in 1922. Mells went out of business two years later.

              The Sweets Candy Company thrived with their products. In 1931, they stuck their Tootsie Roll inside a sucker and called it the Tootsie Pop. The Pop became a favorite with those enduring the Great Depression, and the Heartland farmers trying to survive despite the Dust Bowl. Tootsie Pops were low priced, and an affordable treat for kids and adults. You could chomp it if you wanted, or enjoy it slowly as the candy pop gave way to the Tootsie Roll center.

              They came in five flavors that can still be bought today: Chocolate, Raspberry, Cherry, Orange, and Grape.

              During World War II, the Tootsie Roll became popular with soldiers, and the treats were included in field rations. 

              The Tootsie Pop was a bonafied hit and would remain so for decades. In 1966, the company changed its name to Tootsie Roll Industries Inc, the name it is still known by today. 

              In 1969, maybe to keep up with the times, or just because more kids were watching TV, Tootsie decided to make a commercial. They partnered with the Donor Ad Agency to create a campaign around Tootsie Pops.

A sixty second commercial was pitched and green-lighted. The writing would be handled by Jerry Bernstein, who would act as the art director.

The concept was simple: A child would ask the wisest adults he knew how many licks it took to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop. The commercial, “How Many Licks?” ended with the thought, “The world may never know”.

It was a spot that could air during the Saturday Morning cartoons, or whenever the audience was right for it.

The man put on the job as director was Jimmy Teru Murakami. He had started his career as director in 1964, on a segment of “Toonimals” called, “The Insects”. Ironically, the segments started with asking a question, and pursuing the answer during the short.

Murakami’s early life, as a native of San Jose, California, was spent in the Tule Lake War Relocation Center during World War II. It was a Japanese internment camp, and Murakami would live his life there from the age of 9 until 13. 

In 1965, he established Murakami Wolf Productions, a studio that would go on to produce “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles”. 

Prior to helming a project, Murakami was a character designer, storyboard artist, layout artist and animator on a variety of projects. Though the “How Many Licks?” commercial may come and go on his resume, Murakami stayed a director and writer for decades. He directed the 1980 film “Battle Beyond the Stars” for Roger Corman, and the “Soft Landing” segment of “Heavy Metal” in  1981. 

In 1986, he directed the music video “When the Wind Blows” for David Bowie. Likewise, at the end of his career, he directed the video “King of the Mountain” for Kate Bush.

Murakami would retire before the 2010s. In 2014, while in Dublin, Ireland, he passed away at the age of 80. He was survived by his wife Ethna, and their two daughters. He had moved to Ireland in 1971 to establish Quarteru Films. He would even create a branch of Murakami Wolf Productions in the green country, and they produced the Ninja Turtles. He considered himself an Irishman, and died in the country he spent decades in.

              But back in the late 60s, Murakami and Bernstein, would partner for a Tootsie Pop ad with surprising longevity. With the concept in place and the right people coming on board, all that was left to do was assemble The Perfect Cast.

                   FX: TV STATIC

3. THE PERFECT CAST

                   MUSIC: FREE 60s STYLE BG

ME:           Lucius Fisher Foster IV was born July 12, 1957 in Virginia. Around the house, to distinguish young Lucius from his father, they called him Buddy. He was born the third of four children to Lucius III and Evelyn Ella Foster. His sisters included Cindy, Connie, and the youngest Alicia Christian, whom they called Jodie. As in Jodie Foster.

              At the age of eight, Buddy guest starred on an episode of “Green Acres”. The production company must have liked him, because he was invited back to the “Acres”, and appeared on “Petticoat Junction”. In 1967, he was a regular cast member on the short-lived series, “Hondo”. The very next year, he was cast as Mike on “Mayberry R.F.D.”, a role he would return to over 40 times. After a guest appearance on “Land of the Giants”, he was cast as The Boy in the “How Many Licks?” Tootsie Pop Commercial.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

Frank Brandon Nelson was born in 1911 and raised in Colorado Springs, Colorado. In 1926, at the age of 15, he started his acting career in radio. In fact, he was known for playing the role of a 30 year old man on Denver station KOA on a weekly series. In 1929 he moved to Hollywood, and generally played the leading man in the radio work he found. He was cast on “Flywheel, Shyster, and Flywheel”, a nationally broadcast radio show featuring Groucho and Chico Marx. During the 1940s and 50s, he generally played the exasperated foil to radio star Jack Benny.  He played people in the service industry that Benny interacted with. He was known for the memorable catchphrase… You know what, I’ll let him do it because I can’t do it justice. 

FX: "EEE-Yeeeeeeeeesssss?” 

Nelson would follow Benny to TV in the 50s, and his face would become instantly recognizable in the other shows he appeared in. He was a character actor’s actor, appearing in such shows as “I Love Lucy” and “Our Miss Brooks”. He was the Narrator for the 1960 series “Mr. Magoo”, and then guest starred on “The Flintstones” for Hanna-Barbera. 

In 1969, he won the role of Mr. Cow in the Tootsie Pop commercial.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

Solomon Hersh Frees was born June 20, 1922 in Chicago, Illinois. In the 1930s, he started appearing on Vaudeville as an impressionist under the name Buddy Green. He found he had a four octave voice, which would allow him to voice all manner of characters. In the early 40’s, Frees started his career in radio, and likely changed his first name to Paul at this point. His radio career was cut short by World War II, when he was drafted. He was one of the soldiers at Normandy on D-Day. He would suffer injuries, ending his military career. With the GI Bill financing his schooling, he attended art school. Unfortunately, his wife Annelle had health problems and would pass away after two years of marriage. Frees abandoned his art career and returned to radio work. 

              In the 50s and 60s, Frees became known for his impressionistic skills. He was often called on to re-record dialogue for the movies when actors weren’t speaking coherently, had foreign accents, or just wasn’t the performance the director was looking for. In fact, Frees dubbed Humphrey Bogart’s voice in his last film, “The Harder They Fall”. Bogart was suffering from esophageal cancer, and could not project like he used to.

              Frees got around during his career. He worked for every major studio of the time, ranging from Disney to Rankin-Bass. The list of projects that Frees worked on, goes on and on. He was the narrator at Disney’s Haunted Mansion, and worked with director George Pal in “War of the Worlds” and “The Time Machine”.

              Paul Frees was a staple of commercials, delivering solid and fast performances on a regular basis. He was the farmer in the Jolly Green Giant commercials. It should come as no surprise that he was cast as Mr. Fox for Tootsie Pop.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

              Ralph James Torrez was born in Los Angeles, California, in 1924. He would drop the last name when he became a professional. Ralph James became known for voicing characters on the Looney Tunes. While performing most as a voice actor, he did appear in episodes of “Gunsmoke”, “Mannix” and “Bonanza”. In 1969, he voiced Mr. Turtle in the Tootsie Pop commercial. 

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

Paul Winchell was born Paul Wilchinsky on December 21, 1922, in New York City. His father, Solomon, was a tailor, and his parents had come from Russia and Poland. At a young age, young Paul had one ambition: To be a doctor. Unfortunately, the Great Depression wiped out family finances as well as the opportunity to attend medical school. Perhaps his drive to become a doctor came when he was thirteen and battled polio. While bedridden, his life took a different direction. He chanced upon a magazine selling a ventriloquism kit for a dime. With dimes out of reach at this time, the inventive Winchell had an idea. He reached out to his art teacher, Jero Magon, and asked if he could receive extra credit for creating his own talking doll. The teacher agreed. Young Paul fashioned a doll he named Jerry Mahoney, named for the inspirational teacher. 

              Winchell’s attention turned to comedy radio, and he started to put together comedy routines with Jerry Mahoney. In 1938, Winchell took first place on the radio talent show, “Major Bowes Amateur Hour”. Part of the prize was to travel with Major Bowes and perform his act. While on tour, he was spotted by Ted Weems, a well-known bandleader of that time. Weems reached out to Winchell and asked if he’d tour with him. The youth accepted and became an entertainment professional at the age of 14.

              In 1943, Winchell and Mahoney were given a radio show. Unfortunately, their show was overshadowed by Edgar Bergan and Charlie McCarthy, who won the ratings for their station. In 1950, NBC aired the children’s series “The Paul Winchell-Jerry Mahoney Show”, a Saturday Morning show sponsored by Tootsie Roll.

              Through the 50s and 60s, Winchell would appear on television as a host and guest star. At the end of the 60s, he would hook up with Hanna-Barbera Studios and start a voice career. The Powers-That-Be at HB found plenty of work for Winchell. He would voice Dick Dastardly on several cartoons, including “Wacky Races” and “Dastardly and Muttley in Their Flying Machines”. 

At the end of the 60s, Winchell landed the role of the wise Mr. Owl for Tootsie Pop.          

FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

Harold Peter Topf was born October 30, 1923 in New York City to Berel and Helen. The family itself was a part of the theater scene, and Harold was appearing on stage before he could talk. As most actors do, he took a stage name, adopting the moniker Herschel Bernardi. He performed in Yiddish-language theater into his teens. In the 50s, he was blacklisted for alleged leftist sympathies. It hurt his career until he was cleared by anti-Communist witch-hunters, who made a profit off of those who were blacklisted.

              In 1958, Bernardi married Cynthia and the couple would have three children. 

              He was no stranger to the world of commercial voice over work. Bernardi was the voice of the Jolly Green Giant, as well as Charlie Tuna. In the mid-60s, he took over the role of Tevye from Zero Mostel in the hit play, “Fiddler on the Roof”. In 1969, he was cast as the Narrator in the “How Many Licks?” commercial for Tootsie Pop.

                   FX: STATIC

4. THE PREMIERE

                   MUSIC: “BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER”

ME:           Now that we know where “How Many Licks?” came from, and who brought it to life, we’ll take a listen to the masterpiece in its entirety. 

              But first, let me set the stage for when it premiered. The year is 1970. People are flocking to the theaters to check out movies like “Beneath the Planet of the Apes”, “Patton” and the “Woodstock” documentary. On the radio, you may have heard songs from Simon and Garfunkel, the Carpenters and The Jackson Five. 

              In January, John Pertwee made his first appearance as The Doctor on the first color episode of “Doctor Who”. 

              In March, the “eclipse of the century” occurred and was covered by all three networks.

              In April, President Richard Nixon signed the Public Health Cigarette Smoking Act, which made it illegal to advertise cigarettes on TV, starting in 1971.

              In July, news anchor Chet Huntley retired, ending “The Huntley-Brinkley Report”.

              In October, the Public Broadcasting Service, or PBS, aired across America.

              On TV, new shows included, “The Odd Couple”, “The Mary Tyler Moore Show” and soap opera “All My Children”. 

              During that spectacular year, you might have been a kid casually watching television when the commercials started. What follows is the complete 60 second spot, as it aired in 1970. Over the years, it was shortened to 30 and 15 second spots, losing the original feel.

When you saw it in 1970, maybe you’d be taken by the psychedelic orange sky, or the talking cow. Either way, this is what you would have heard from Tootsie Pop: 

                   FX: “HOW MANY LICKS?” COMMERCIAL (1:00)

5. AFTERMATH

MUSIC: 60 BG MUSIC 

ME:           Buddy Foster would work through the 70s as a guest star, and put in a final film appearance in 1980. At the age of 23, he retired from acting with the film “Foxes”, opposite sister Jodie. In 1997, he wrote the book “Foster Child”, where he wrote about his family. He claimed his mother once had a same sex romance, and that sister Jodie was also bi-sexual. Jodie Foster responded by saying it was a cry for attention. At last report, Foster was married and living in Minnesota. He is the only surviving cast member from the Tootsie Pop commercial.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

Frank Nelson continued on in animation through the 70s, building an impressive amount of credits. In 1983, he landed the role of reclusive wizard Wizzar on “The Monchhichis”. 

In 1984, he would move on to “Snorks”, playing Governor Wetworth, the father of series lead All-star. In the 1986 special, “Garfield in Paradise”, he played a travel agent and hotel clerk, where he reprised his famous Jack Benny character. That same year, he played Dr. Pavlov on “Foofur”, and was in the live-action film “The Malibu Bikini Shop”. The 80s were good to Nelson, who played his trademark character in a series of ads for fast food chain McDonalds. It brought him some new found fame with a younger generation who still got a kick out of his antics. Over the course of his life, Nelson was married twice, divorced once, and fathered two children. In the summer of 1985, he was diagnosed with cancer, but fought it as best he could. On September 12, 1986, he passed away from the illness at the age of 75.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

              Paul Frees would marry his fifth and final wife in 1971. He would voice the Pillsbury Doughboy, and Toucan Sam for “Froot Loops” cereal. Frees also had a knack for sounding like Orson Welles, and found work dubbing the actor and doing sound-alikes. Ironically, Maurice LaMarche would go on to play Toucan Sam, and is also known as the go-to actor for an Orson Welles-like voice. In the early 80s, Frees appeared in one episode of “Knight Rider” voicing K.A.R.R., the evil version of K.I.T.T.

              Towards the end of his life, Frees suffered from arthritis and diabetes, and told friends he was in almost constant pain. On November 2, 1986, Paul Frees died at his California house at the age of 66. It was publically released that his cause of death was heart failure. It was later learned that Frees overdosed on self-administered pain medication, and his death was rules a suicided. His body was cremated, and his ashes spread over the Pacific Ocean. He was survived by his two children from his 3rd marriage, and Beverly Marlow, his last wife.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

              Ralph James would go on to work on “Mork and Mindy” as Orson, Mork’s Orkan superior. Orson was never seen on screen, but was heard as a voice at the end of the episodes when Mork reported what he had experienced on Earth. In the 80s, he worked on “Pink Panther and Sons”, as well as “The Jetsons”. In 1985, he retired from acting. On March 14, 1992, James passed away in Beverly Hills at the age of 67.

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

              Paul Winchell became a staple at Hanna-Barbera, and also worked for Ruby-Spears. Along the way, Winchell would marry three times, and have three children. In 1981, he was cast as title character Marmaduke, while also harassing “The Smurfs” as nemesis Gargamel. 

              Winchell always wanted to be a doctor, but never made it, due to the Great Depression. While his life gravitated towards entertainment, he still received training in the medical field. He’s also a patent holder for his invention of an artificial heart. His patent was jointly held with Dr. Henry Heimlich, yes of Heimlich Maneuver fame. Winchell also worked for Disney, and was the original voice of Tigger in the Winnie the Pooh films.   

In the mid-80s, among his acting chores, he developed a way to breed tilapia fish in Africa to help combat starvation on that continent. His daughter April is also a voice actor, and currently voices Clarabelle Cow for Disney.

In 2004, near the end of his life, Winchell wrote his life story down in the autobiography “Winch”. His life story was filled with childhood abuse, depression, and a stint in a mental institution. It’s sad to know that under all those hours of happiness Winchell brought to his audience, whether on the radio, the big screen or on Saturday Morning, that he himself was deeply troubled. The artist retired in 1999, and passed away on June 24, 2005 at the age of 82. The cause of death was determined to be natural causes. Ironically, the day after his death, voice actor John Fielder also passed away. Winchell was Tigger to Fielder’s Piglet for many years in the Hundred Acre Wood. 

                   FX: SWOOSH

*   *   *

Herschel Bernardi found success as a leading man on TV in the series “Arnie”. On that show, he was a dock worker who got promoted to executive level by the eccentric business owner. He was nominated for two Golden Globes during the run of the show, which only lasted two seasons.

In 1971, Bernardi and his wife parted ways. The actor would find love again, and married Teri in 1982. That marriage resulted in one child.

              In the years in between, Bernardi spent his time on TV as a character actor, and on the stage as a leading man. He often revisited the role of Tevye in “Fiddler”, and was celebrated for it. In the mid-80s, he filmed a pilot for a TV series that did  not get picked up. It if had, it would have been a “Family Ties” spin-off starring Scott Valentine as Nick.

              Sadly, on May 9, 1986, Bernardi suffered a heart attack in his sleep, and passed away at the age of 62.

                   FX: TV STATIC

6. LEGACY

MUSIC: YESTERDAY, THE DAY BEFORE 

ME:           The iconic commercial aired in 1970, and has rarely been off the air. The ad started as a way to ponder, “How Many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie pop?” It was a way to get viewers involved. And maybe they’d even buy a bunch to see if they could figure out the answer. The genius of the commercial is that it showed how irresistible the pop was by having the wisest character chomp it.

              So, how many licks does it take?

              Over the decades, several colleges have attempted to answer that question. And, surprisingly, the answer has been varied.

              A student at Purdue University used a licking machine and concluded it took 56,764 to get to the center. This was somewhat disproved by twenty students who ran the test the old fashioned way, and found it took around 252 licks to get to the center. The information out of the University of Michigan said it took 411. 

              In 1996 undergraduate students at Swarthmore College concluded that it take between 70–222 licks, a median of 144 licks, to get to the center. 

              In 2014, the University of Florida conducted a study about erosion. They measured the erosion of a Tootsie Pop when exposed to different licking styles. You know, one sided approach vs full surface licks. The average between the two was 130 licks, plus or minus 29.

              Years after the original commercial, and because of the collegiate studies, Tootsie has a great sense of humor about this particular question.

              They encourage connoisseurs of the Tootsie Pop to conduct their own studies, and keep track of their results. They even have a PDF certificate that features Mr. Owl, has a place for your lick count, and is signed by Ellen Gordon, president of Tootsie. Not to be left out, there are also feet prints from Mr. Owl. The certificate reads, “The world may never know how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop. Throughout the years, countless others have attempted, and failed, to lick their way through the delicious candy coating. You, however, are among the truly disciplined who have resisted the urge to bite and made it successfully to the center. Tootsie Roll declares you are the one who knows.”

              The commercial that aired in 1970 still airs to this day. Tootsie Roll may pick their moments, but they know it’s a classic that cannot be topped. In the 80s, I can remember watching it on Saturday Mornings between segments of “Muppet Babies” and “The Smurfs”. I was amused by the question, and delighted by Mr. Owl’s solution.

              I remember my cousin and I trying to figure it out, lose count, and just eating the damn things.

              In the 90s, I would see the commercial sporadically as I watched my “Star Trek” stories and various other shows. As recently as 2020, I saw it again and watched it with my kids. I know it’s just a commercial for a candy company, but it is a little classic that still gets a laugh when kids see it. 

              The cast of the commercial were the best of the best at the time. Work that they did for a few hours has endured for more than fifty years, and will likely be run as long as the candy remains.

              It’s sparked scientific research, both professional and amateur. I don’t think questions like “Have you had your break today?” and “Where’s the beef?” can claim such a thing. It’s the little commercial that could, and is still going to this day.

              Until next time, thanks for ‘tooning in.

                   FX: STATIC 

7. FOLLOW & END (PRE-RECORD)

                   MUSIC: HIJACK

ME:           Thank you for joining us at THE SATURDAY MORNING PODCAST. If you like what you hear, please subscribe. If you could do us a favor, leave a Five Star Review wherever you get your episodes from.

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FADE OUT.

THE END